Curse

bhavv · Oct 26, 2008, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebus

This game is fun... when you have a good team, which happens almost never.
Every team I get in is filled with noobs that can't follow the simplest orders, or don't know jack about tacts. Example; A 3-2 split at the beginning would be great, but instead they chose to rush with 5, (capping a shrine is capped at +4 btw), and that's just one of the reasons why random GW PVP fails. loads.
It's just annoying to get teamed up with such retards...

Yea, thats the problem The people dont know how to cap or follow map pings or arrows.

I ping three locations on the map for a split, type <2 1 2> (you should know what map this is by looking at that command by now), and everyone else just charges together as a pack of four headless chickens. I draw circles around individual dots on the map and an arrow for which way to go. They either go the other way, or everyone else also follows them. They cap one shrine, then see the enemy and go in and start fighting, they lose because we have no shrines, or well, because I cant cap them all fast enough on my own and they just stand and fight without a monk ('I got an OMG what are you doing monk?' while my whole team was fighting and I was frantically trying to cap shrines on my own with no help from the rest of the team.

This is a team game, true. But it is a team game which requires splitting to cap, people need to seperate and go for different shrines or you will not win. It is far easier to win from morale and small gankings by splitting and capping then it is by charging in as a group of 5 to just clobber the enemies - the latter will just get you killed if the enemy team controlls both health shrines. The best time to fight is only after you have contoll of both health shrines at the least, and someone should be trying to keep the other shrines as well at the same time (4-1 split after you controll the health shrines). If you dont, then you should be avoiding combat and trying to cap.

But when you get a good team that know what they are doing, it is awesome.

Bug John · Oct 26, 2008, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebus

This game is fun... when you have a good team, which happens almost never.
Every team I get in is filled with noobs that can't follow the simplest orders, or don't know jack about tacts. Example; A 3-2 split at the beginning would be great, but instead they chose to rush with 5, (capping a shrine is capped at +4 btw), and that's just one of the reasons why random GW PVP fails. loads.
It's just annoying to get teamed up with such retards...

qft, most people have no clue what they're doing, it's even worse than ra

The Arching Healer · Oct 26, 2008, 10:34 AM // 10:34

We have solutions for that in RA and CB

*Sync*

Perfected Shadow · Oct 26, 2008, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Arching Healer

We have solutions for that in RA and CB

*Sync*

Brings us back to my point. I'm surprised anet doesn't consider it an exploit. The guide for CB even says "five randomly selected allies".

Jebus · Oct 26, 2008, 10:54 AM // 10:54

You know what I hate too? People who stand in the middle of the shrine UNTILL it's capped! I mean, you can stand a whole shrine away from it and still be capping it, and you could be moving to the next shrine already while still capping it, 5 seconds you're losing....

DarkNecrid · Oct 26, 2008, 10:54 AM // 10:54

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I didnt realise that the Rit had any AoE skills like smite Condition and Hex. They actually do far more damage and pressure in 2 / 3 monk teams then a 2 / 3 rit team could do.

Ancestor's Rage. Which isn't even "good" unless if the enemy team is dumb just like SH/SC damage is since they nerfed it.

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And you still carry on comparing brawl to RA, and your monk with actually useless melee skills which is just daft. Nothing on the brawl monks skill bar is a bad skill, you have 8 highly useful and good skills to use in every situation you will encounter in Costume Brawls.

Bad bar is a bad bar.

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You also ignored my question to you of what you would be doing in the Brawl if the monks were pure WoH healers and you got three of them. You wouldnt be able to kill anything or get any points to win, but you can do that easilly with several smite monks.

Yes but they aren't, which is why Izzy made them deliberately bad is so they wouldn't stall the game (which they would) or make people dependent on having 1 (also would).

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You get a three monk team and go smiting all those conditions and hexes off your front line and watching the enemy team die. It isnt a bad build, it is highly effective when there are two or three monks and 3 monks 2 warriors is just the best thing going in this game for the best defense and damage output (Yes my team messed up because we lost shrines to a better team then got killed). Conditions and hexes are always there to be smited. The more monks you get, the more damage you dish out.

Maybe if the enemy team is retarded and balls up. Every self heal on each of the bars can outheal 3 Smite Hexes/Conditions damage.

Quote:

Brings us back to my point. I'm surprised anet doesn't consider it an exploit. The guide for CB even says "five randomly selected allies".

Alas, 5 randomly selected allies who all enter at the same time, is still randomly selected from a list of players who entered. You can't sync very easy in the Costume Brawl however, as there is 8+ districts almost everywhere except the super hidden foreign ones. (and good luck finding 5 people all willing to lose so you can farm Gamer/ToTs if you want to do a double synch)

EDIT:
i'm done replying, I've said everything that needs to be said, you keep posting screenshots or beat X/Y/Z in 1v1, don't back anything up with good data except for data gathered from bad players. I could post a screenshot of my 20+ wins as a Monk too, but it doesn't mean anything cause the bar is still bad and the enemy teams even worse. You're the only one (!!!) defending the bar in any real way, and you're doing a rather poor job of it and this is just degrading the thread's quality, so I'm done with this silly argument.

Perfected Shadow · Oct 26, 2008, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

You can't sync very easy in the Costume Brawl however

I must have horrible luck then facing a sync team on average 1/5 matches. Oh and multiple times I entered after losing to a sync team and guess what, first team we face is the same sync team. Furthermore, those exploiters (At least we agree it's exploiting right?) don't get flushed out since there is no 10 win cap like in RA. I can't comment on how easy/hard it is to sync (have no clue), but the point is it's an exploit so why the f u kc is anet not nerfing it?

Numa Pompilius · Oct 26, 2008, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Maybe if the enemy team is retarded and balls up. Every self heal on each of the bars can outheal 3 Smite Hexes/Conditions damage.

Actually no, they can't. Especially rangers and assassins are easy to own for 2-3 monks. Try playing a monk, please.

The main difference to RA isn't that the CB monk does less damage, but that 2 of any other class can easily own 1 CB monk. The tankability of a CB monk is nowhere near that of a normal Mo/W build.

bhavv · Oct 26, 2008, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

You're the only one (!!!) defending the bar in any real way, and you're doing a rather poor job of it and this is just degrading the thread's quality, so I'm done with this silly argument.

Not really, there are several people that rank it as one of the top three builds and consider it better then the others. Likewise you are the only person badmouthing the build in any real way, and failing to realise that this isnt high end PVP. People will look at it and go 'lol smiting sux'. You are no different to them. Others will take the bar and make full use from all of its skills and sail through the brawl in multiple monk teams. You are just taking up your pet hatred for healing breeze and smiting and failing to realise how decent the build is in this situation for the costume brawl.

The threads quality is degraded by people complaining about the builds, not by people that are enjoying playing them and having fun.

It is like saying - RC prot monk is a good build, but take it into an area where there is not one condition and it now becomes a bad build. Word of Healing is a great heal, but take a team with a ZB monk or even two other WoH monks, and all they do is waste the conditional heal / energy gain by casting them on the same target so they now beome bad.

55 HP monk is a brilliant skill bar for farming. Take it into GVG and it fails.

The smite monk build is brilliant in the Costume Brawl, but yes, it would suck terribly anywhere else. None of your reasons for disliking the monk build apply to the situations within the costume brawl, they are only valid in other parts of the game. All of my reasons for liking the build apply to the costume brawl where it is a highly decent and efficient build, it is a very good build here, but it wouldnt be good anywhere else, just like a 55 HP monk in a GVG match. That is why your points are moot and make no sense because you are not applying the build to where it is supposed to be used. Every skill in the game is bad in some situations as I described, but they can work brilliantly in other situations, as the monk build does in the costume brawls.

From the reason behind your posts, I highly doubt that you have even played the costume brawl yet or realise how it works. People who can adapt and know how to play the monk build and have used it reralise how good and effective it actually is. Likewise, people who have monked in 2 or 3 monk teams also will realise how brilliantly the smite skills add up on top of each other.

It is comparable to Searing Flames, take one SF elly, and it isnt too useful. Take two and they are far far better. When you increase the number of monks in a costume brawl, their efficiency is increasing in a similar manner, but of course, you wouldnt know untill you have experienced it yourself.

Productivity · Oct 26, 2008, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Actually no, they can't. Especially rangers and assassins are easy to own for 2-3 monks. Try playing a monk, please.

Amazing. A bad build can win when given a 3 to 1 advantage.

The point is, there is nothing that a monk significantly adds over the ritualist, while the ritualist has stronger damage, stronger heals and stronger protection.

Tyla · Oct 26, 2008, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Removal skills are needed throughout the game even if you are mobile - Poison and Cripple, Deep wound / Bleeding, necro + elly hexes.

The spammability of the Elementalists' hexes only leave disruption as a decent work. Conditions are better cleaned up by a Necromancer, and for the most part they are covered. Well, unless for some reason the Ranger doesn't have Apply Poison up or the Assassin isn't disrupted mid-chain already.

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Smite Condition on teh Cripple lololol!!!

Apply Poison covers conditions.

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But you are right, Monks are so fail at costume brawl:

We only then lost to a 2 monk team who out DPS'ed us and also knew what they were doing. (I was doing most of the shrine capping BTW).

(Hint - We had 3 smite conditions and hexes, and warriors in the front line covered with Insidious Parasite / Suffering, Poioson, Deep Wound, Bleeding, Blind. Smite, smite, smite, and enemies just go boom =D)

Again; winning is meaningless. If you was doing most of the shrine capping, then you just invalidated your own post.

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By hitting them with KD signets and kiting, spamming RoD to negate most of their damage while you heal up with Healing Breeze. You also obviously arent playing the build, nor understand how it works in this specific situation. This isnt high end PVP, it is costume brawl. Forget any logic that applies to HA / GVG / PVE, because it doesnt apply here. I am managing to use it to hold against all of the other builds. Health + Energy Shrines also help. By the time you are out of energy however, your attacker will normally be fleeing.

So, it's only 4 seconds out of the 20? That isn't nearly enough to render a Dervish with both an IAS and an IMS active useless, or a Warrior who's built enough adrenaline for Rush. (Furious Spears)

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But let me just be cool then like all the other build QQ'ers and agree that the monk build is terrible. I'll just keep on playing it and winning over and over again because it sucks so much.

Coming out derogatory like that is pretty funny; you can say we're QQ'ing, but that's just like saying we're not even presenting an argument and avoiding it the same way you did before.

own age myname · Oct 26, 2008, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Like some people are saying, sure the rit bar looks/is better then the monk's. But I've won far more games as a monk (games don't matter I guess :/). The monk bar seems more playable. The rit bar, idk, just doesn't feel right.

I'll just keeping playing the crappy monk bar...

sassoonssamson · Oct 26, 2008, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metatail

Aye, Warrior is strong and Monk still sucks. Just to let you know there is no new map yet. For the victory you gain 5 ToT Bags, 100 Balthazar Factions aaaaaand... 10+(number of consecutive wins) gamer points ! Dunno if the gamer points are capped at some point but now getting high win streak has its purpose! Instant iddqd and higher, c'mon.

Lol Monk doesnt suck he rocks

Use it properly

Lets your warrior /assasin/ranger/dev aggro Once he starts gettingth heat spam the 1st skill insta damage ,spam remove hex and condition , heal him in betweeen , cast the 3 smite skills the attacker drops drastically .

And on 1 on 1 except for a necro no one could down me .

Ysterday we had a run of 8 consecutive wins We only lost when 1 of our teamates quit in between and we were outnumbered

Tyla · Oct 26, 2008, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by sassoonssamson

Lol Monk doesnt suck he rocks

Use it properly

Lets your warrior /assasin/ranger/dev aggro Once he starts gettingth heat spam the 1st skill insta damage ,spam remove hex and condition , heal him in betweeen , cast the 3 smite skills the attacker drops drastically .

And on 1 on 1 except for a necro no one could down me .

Ysterday we had a run of 8 consecutive wins We only lost when 1 of our teamates quit in between and we were outnumbered

You can't "aggro", and some people actually catch on and stop attacking the person you're using shit on.

You're not helping your own argument either; you're saying it works versus bad people instead of using even an average player as an example.

bhavv · Oct 26, 2008, 02:10 PM // 14:10

How exactly do I invalidate my argument by shrine capping in a 3 monk 2 warrior team? There are two other monks and they were killing and keeping us alive. If the builds were as bad some people say, then having 3 of them on a team should be a disadvantage, not a benefit.

This is a one sided argument for me. People who have actually bothered to play the monk are doing well, find it a good build and are having good success with multiple monks. People that keep on arguing about it being bad are obviously not even playing it.

Oh, and if someone who knows how to play both a monk and a ritualist has already tried them both and actually prefers the monk, I think they have a much more valid point then the elitists complaining about smiting and healing breeze being a bad build when they cant even correctly apply their logic to the game where it is being used.

Likewise, 55 and 600 hp monks are bad bars because they fail in GVG ...

I have played the monk and can survive against and outdamage all the other classes in the brawl. It is called Reversal of Damage, try using it, it works wonderfully in this game. Such a seriously underated skill, but then again, so is the whole smiting line just Because they arent used in 8v8 PVP.

And how exactly do you come to conclude that anyone that gets beaten by the smite monk is a bad player? It seriously doesnt matter how good you are at playing any of the melee builds. Try to gank me 1 on 1, stick around fighting and you'll be dead in no time.

You cannot outdamage H Breeze and Reversal of Damage spam with any of the brawl classes before I would end up smiting you to death, regardless of how good a player you are. Because my smite monk build is much better in costume brawl then yours is.

Tyla · Oct 26, 2008, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

How exactly do I invalidate my argument by shrine capping in a 3 monk 2 warrior team? There are two other monks and they were killing and keeping us alive. If the builds were as bad some people say, then having 3 of them on a team should be a disadvantage, not a benefit.

"doing most of the capping yourself".

If you're doing MOST of the capping yourself, you aren't necessarily in a good team.

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This is a one sided argument for me. People who have actually bothered to play the monk are doing well, find it a good build and are having good success with multiple monks. People that keep on arguing about it being bad are obviously not even playing it.

Oh, I've played the majority of the bars including the Monk.

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Likewise, 55 and 600 hp monks are bad bars because they fail in GVG ...

What. Yes, different builds suck in different formats, but this build sucks in all formats for reasons already noted.

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I have played the monk and can survive against and outdamage all the other classes in the brawl. It is called Reversal of Damage, try using it, it works wonderfully in this game. Such a seriously underated skill, but then again, so is the whole smiting line just Because they arent used in 8v8 PVP.

Smiting just sucks outside of Reversal of Damage, Smite Hex and Smite Condition. Those three skills build the line, but at the same time it doesn't make it viable for healing unless accompanied by DBoon or SBoon in terms of 4v4, or in this case 5v5. You can't uphold more than two people with just these skills. And yes, Smiting was used in 8v8. I believe it is still used now, although a Ritualist heavily outfclasses it.

bhavv · Oct 26, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

The monks arent supposed to uphold the whole team, just increase the survivability. If the monks were pure healers, there would be no importance to the health shrines.

The monks are not meant to be overpowering healers, the point is that you need to cap and then kill to fit the purpose of costume brawl.

You miss the whole point of costume brawl if you expect that the monks are supposed to be pure healers, but even still, several monks on a team is very hard to beat unless facing a similar team.

After the event is over, I am actually going to try a similar smite team in hero battles, purely for fun to see if I can make a full team of smiters work there.

By the way - When you controll the relevent shrines in Costume brawls, skills recharge 25% faster, and cost 25% less energy. This offsets the drawbacks people pointed out before about the cost of Healing Breeze and the recharge on the signets.

Tyla · Oct 26, 2008, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

The monks arent supposed to uphold the whole team, just increase the survivability. If the monks were pure healers, there would be no importance to the health shrines.

The monks are not meant to be overpowering healers, the point is that you need to cap and then kill to fit the purpose of costume brawl.

I understand this; my point is that they have no form of healing -at all-, which makes Ritualists alot stronger at doing... everything a Monk does.

Quote:

By the way - When you controll the relevent shrines in Costume brawls, skills recharge 25% faster, and cost 25% less energy. This offsets the drawbacks people pointed out before about the cost of Healing Breeze and the recharge on the signets.

8 energy is still a lot of energy for Healing Breeze, and 14 recharge is still a lot on signets.

Jebus · Oct 26, 2008, 03:21 PM // 15:21

*Sigh*

The more I play Custom Brawl the more I realise how many retards there are in Guild Wars. Seriously, I think I'm hexed in someway that I'm always getting teamed up with these idiots that don't even get the basics of teamplay.
To win a teamgame, communication is an important factor. Typing isn't handy at all, I know, but you have this awesome thing called a minimap where you can draw and ping stuff on !

Maybe it's just me, but I think none of these people even look at the minimap. Every game I try to explain how the team should be split and who should be capping which shrine - with text and the minimap - but when the gates open they all rush to the nearest shrine no matter what I friendly asked them to do =-/

Fox Reeveheart · Oct 26, 2008, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Enough about the monk...even though I think they are imba >.< honestly, they are nigh-on impossible to kill, especially if there are two of them, oh jeez! Takes a lot to take one down it feels like.

How about mesmer love =) I've killed monks 1 v 1 with that baby. The key is to cry their signet of judgement and interrupt their cure hex or one of their healing spells :O Though they usually catch on and I have to chase after them.

I can't number the amount of runners i've pizzowned with wastrel's worry. They'll be low health and just take off, 1 hit of worry and I can walk away, know within 2-3 seconds their dead. What is even funnier is being above or beneath a bridge with the enemy on the other side and you just start spamming wastrel's worry. i've taken people down to 25% health with that one skill alone because the VAST majority of people have no idea whats going on.

lyssa's aura is almost always on after you cast it, because you will be casting spells about 90% of the time and have very little downtime. (Then again, I was using the Magekiller staff, which is even better than the staff given to you at the match, being all but 1 skill is domination magic

)

assassins go so fast with their chains i've killed many in seconds just with empathy and MAYBE one energy burn, when they use heart of shadow I just click ether feast to heal also. It's a little trickier with warriors, once they get to about half health or below they'll hit the lion's comfort, if you can cry (of frustration) that then you are golden and either they will smack themselves to oblivion with empathy or take off running, of which you use energy burn or wastrel's worry.

I remember beating up on a warrior, i'm down to like 40% health and an ele was right behind him at full health after the war went down. Cry of frustration + power spike (or whatever it's called, I get the names confused) then overload. or better yet. hit the ele with wastrel's worry then interrupt their next skill :O

in the 3 weeks i been playing a mesmer I've grown to LOVE them.